Andreas Cebulla
Biographic Data
| ID | 377663 |
|---|---|
| NAME | Andreas Cebulla |
| GIVEN NAMES | Andreas |
| FAMILY NAME | Cebulla |
| SIGNATURE | CEBULLA A |
| AFFILIATIONS | Flinders University |
| ORCID | 0000-0002-6853-6245 |
| VERIFIED | Yes |
| TOTAL WORKS | 32 |
| TOTAL CITATIONS | 55 |
| AUTHOR COUNT | 32 |
| EDITOR COUNT | 0 |
| FIRST PUBLICATION YEAR | 1996 |
| LATEST PUBLICATION YEAR | 2025 |
| H-INDEX | 5 |
AI and workplace relations: A WHS framework for managing relational risks in workplaces
Artificial intelligence (AI) has a growing presence in Australian workplaces. While early assessments focused on job automation and productivity gains, a growing body of evidence points to AI affecting workplace relationships, worker autonomy and psychosocial well-being. This paper examines the relational risks of AI in Australian workplaces, drawing on national and international literature. Businesses in Australia adopt AI technologies for data …
Trends and Patterns in Electronic Health Record Research (1991–2022): A Bibliometric Analysis of Australian Literature
Electronic Heath Records (EHRs) play vital roles in facilitating streamlined service provision and governance across the Australian health system. Given the recent challenges due to the COVID-19 pandemic, an ageing population, health workforce silos, and growing inefficiencies in traditional systems, a detailed historical analysis of the use of EHR research in Australia is necessary. The aim of this study is to examine the trends and patterns in …
The Future of Work and Technology: Global Trends, Challenges and Policies with an Australian Perspective
This book examines how global technological advances shape the way we work and allocate work today, and how we might do so in the future, exploring advances in robotics, artificial intelligence, green technology and implications for workforce skills and future welfare. It uses Australia as a case study, contrasting the country's experience to those elsewhere. The book is a cross-disciplinary collaboration that brings together the expertise of eng…
Applying ethics to AI in the workplace: The design of a scorecard for Australian workplace health and safety
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is taking centre stage in economic growth and business operations alike. Public discourse about the practical and ethical implications of AI has mainly focussed on the societal level. There is an emerging knowledge base on AI risks to human rights around data security and privacy concerns. A separate strand of work has highlighted the stresses of working in the gig economy. This prevailing focus on human rights and gi…
Older Adults’ Perspectives of Smart Technologies to Support Aging at Home: Insights from Five World Café Forums
Globally, there is an urgent need for solutions that can support our aging populations to live well and reduce the associated economic, social and health burdens. Implementing smart technologies within homes and communities may assist people to live well and 'age in place'. To date, there has been little consultation with older Australians addressing either the perceived benefits, or the potential social and ethical challenges associated with sma…
The future of work for young people – early occupational pathways and the risk of automation in Australia
Automating workplaces that results in a loss of jobs has become a topic of public debate and study but has paid little attention to differential impacts on age groups. This paper applies OECD data on the risk of jobs being automated to Australian longitudinal survey data following 15 years old students over a ten-year period as they enter the job market. Whilst in the early stages of their working lives, these young Australians often worked in jo…
When what you have is not enough—Acquiring Australian qualifications to overcome non‐recognition of overseas skills
Skilled migration is an important strategy in developed economies seeking to address skills shortages and population ageing. Research on the labour market outcomes of skilled migrants tends to focus on employers' devaluation of skills without considering the role of immigration policy in the migration process. Moreover, there is little understanding of whether efforts to meet employer demands for local qualifications improve labour market outcome…
The Participation of Senior Citizens in Policy-Making: Patterning Initiatives in Europe
Worldwide, active aging policy calls for greater participation of senior citizens in the social, economic, and political realms. Despite emerging evidence of initiatives engaging senior citizens in social activities, little is known about the use of participatory approaches in the design and/or implementation of policies that matter to older citizens. This article identifies initiatives facilitating the civic participation of older people in poli…
Work-Life Imbalance in Extended Working Lives: Domestic Divisions of Labour and Partners’ Perceptions of Job Pressures of Non-Retiring Older Workers
Extending working lives prolongs existing patterns of time spent in work or with family into later life. Analysis of European Social Survey data shows a widening in inequitable domestic divisions of labour in households with post-retirement age workers. We explore partners’ perceptions of older workers’ job pressures when close to or beyond retirement age. Partners’ concerns about job pressures are found not to be immediately associated with ineq…
All roads leading to Rome? The medium term outcomes of Australian youth’s transition pathways from education
Young people’s transition from education into the labour market are diverse: sometimes direct from school to work or inactivity, sometimes characterised by stop-starts and combinations of different activities. This paper explores the association between transition pathways of Australian youth and their outcomes, in terms of earnings, perceptions of employment opportunities and debt. It builds on analysis by Fry and Boulton [2013. Prevalence of Tr…
The social orientations and ideologies of UK finance employees at the onset of the Global Financial Crisis
Debates about the Global Financial Crisis of 2007 have pointed at institutional and individual-behavioural factors as its causes. Using the British Household Panel Survey, this article highlights marked differences in perceptions of societal and economic fairness among financial services employees in investment or management positions in the United Kingdom and the general working population at the brink of the Global Financial Crisis. Panel data …
Learning in a rich country: The normalisation of homelessness among apprentices in Australia
This paper documents evidence of a ‘normalisation’ of the risk of homelessness experienced by apprentices and trainees in Australia. It draws on a bespoke survey of past and current learners in its Southern state, group and one-to-one interviews with apprentices and trainees, and a review of a government support programme, conducted in 2012 and 2013. The research produced evidence of apprentices and trainees experiencing homelessness in the cours…
Disability, and social and economic inclusion: Who is in and out of the Australian National Disability Insurance Scheme
A new National Disability Insurance Scheme is being trialled in Australia, following criticism of the fragmented and inequitable nature of existing disability supports (e.g. in the 2009 ‘Shut Out’ report by the National People with Disabilities and Carer Council) and reform recommendations made by the Australian Government's Productivity Commission in 2011. The Insurance Scheme distinguishes between people living with disability who will be eligi…
Apprenticeships in homelessness: A quantitative study
Training and education are acknowledged routes into employment, but they also entail risks of contemporaneous financial loss, and economic and social insecurity. This paper explores the specific risk of homelessness among apprentices and trainees, drawing on a survey conducted in South Australia in 2013. Housing has been largely overlooked by studies of the wellbeing of apprentices and trainees, and by explorations of the drivers of attrition rat…
The mutual constitution of risk and inequalities: Intersectional risk theory
In this article, we examine the conceptual importance of integrating risk and intersectionality theory for the study of how risk and various forms of inequality intersect and are mutually constitutive. We argue that an intersectional perspective can advance risk research by incorporating more effectively the role of such social categories as gender and race into the analysis of ‘risk’ as an empirical phenomenon. In doing so, the intersectional pe…
Jumping off the track: Comparing the experiences of first jobs of young people living in disadvantaged and non-disadvantaged neighbourhoods in Britain
This paper draws on an analysis of one of the UK's most prominent longitudinal datasets, the British Household Panel Survey. The panel was used to study and track the realisation of job aspirations of young people born in the early 1980s and entering the workforce in the 2000s. The study compared the aspirations of those growing up in socio-economically disadvantaged areas with those growing up in non-disadvantaged areas. The analysis confirmed s…
The demise of certainty: Shifts in aspirations and achievement at the turn of the century
The analysis of two British cohort studies (of people born in 1958 or 1970) and one British panel study (of people born in the early 1980s) tracked the educational, employment and marital preferences of three generations of young people between ages 16 and 23/26. It found a steady decline in young people achieving their ambitions. Supporting evidence from in-depth interviews with parents and their children suggested that the perceived need, abili…
A Convergence of Attitudes? Perceptions of Social Inequality and Work in Post-communist and ‘Traditional’ European Market Economies
Economic and governmental reforms change public opinion and behaviour. Using the International Social Survey, this paper analyses attitudes to social inequality and work orientations in three European post-communist countries reported immediately after the introduction of market economies (in and around 1990) and in more recent years (up to 2005). The emerging patterns are compared with those reported in Western European market economies. The res…
Perceptions of labour market risks: Shifts and continuities across generations
In the risk society thesis, most notably forwarded by Ulrich Beck and Anthony Giddens, the labour market plays a key role in individualization processes. While for previous generations, family and personal networks, and also government institutions, were important in providing access to and mobility within the labour market, cohorts entering the labour market since the 1970s and onwards are perceived to be living in a modern 'risk regime', requir…
The risk society hypotheses: An empirical test using longitudinal survey data
This paper seeks to test the influential ‘risk society’ thesis using quantitative data from the major UK longitudinal surveys. Two hypotheses are derived from the thesis: distanciation (the claim that more recent generations understand and manage their social lives in relation to risk and uncertainty in substantially different ways from those of their parents’ generation) and reflexivity (the view that individuals are increasingly aware of their …
Risk through the years – a statistical portrait of young people's risk perceptions and experiences relative to those of older generations
Youth and adolescence are associated with significant changes in a person's life. According to risk theory, the changes experienced by young people today are fundamentally different from those experienced by previous generations and entail a greater degree of uncertainty. In this paper, survey and interview data are used to describe how contemporary risk experiences of young people in Britain differ from those of older generations, highlighting, …
Meta-Analyse – Eine Einleitung
Class or Individual? A Test of the Nature of Risk Perceptions and the Individualisation Thesis of Risk Society Theory
The theory of risk society claims that 'individualisation' has led social class positions to loose their significance in explaining risk and risk perceptions in late modernity. Using social survey data from England, this proposition was put to an empirical test for three types of risks: income loss, accident or illness, and poor customer service or advice. Regression analyses revealed that class position only affected perceptions of the risk of i…
Working beyond the state pension age in the United Kingdom: The role of working time flexibility and the effects on the home
The present and future security of employee-pension funding remains at the forefront of public debate across Europe and beyond. In the United Kingdom, to finance future pension entitlements it has been suggested that the state pension age be increased. This paper presents the results of analyses of four major national social surveys that have explored the working and living conditions of workers in paid employment after the state pension age. Com…
When Welfare-to-Work Programs Seem to Work Well: Explaining Why Riverside and Portland Shine So Brightly
Of welfare-to-work programs evaluated by random assignment, two stand out as having exceptionally large estimated effects: one in Riverside, California, and the other in Portland, Oregon. The authors use data from 24 evaluations and the tools of meta-analysis to examine why. The findings indicate that the apparently superior performance of these two programs in increasing the earnings of participants is only partly attributable to program design …
When what you have is not enough—Acquiring Australian qualifications to overcome non‐recognition of overseas skills
Skilled migration is an important strategy in developed economies seeking to address skills shortages and population ageing. Research on the labour market outcomes of skilled migrants tends to focus on employers' devaluation of skills without considering the role of immigration policy in the migration process. Moreover, there is little understanding of whether efforts to meet employer demands for local qualifications improve labour market outcome…
Meta-Evaluation: Discovering What Works Best in Welfare Provision
Numerous programmes designed to encourage welfare recipients to move into work and off benefit have been evaluated in the United States. Many have randomly assigned potential participants into ‘experimental’ and ‘control’ groups to generate unbiased estimates of the effectiveness of the programmes. The results of the evaluations have been selectively influential in shaping policy developments on both sides of the Atlantic, but a thorough understa…
Class or Individual? A Test of the Nature of Risk Perceptions and the Individualisation Thesis of Risk Society Theory
The theory of risk society claims that 'individualisation' has led social class positions to loose their significance in explaining risk and risk perceptions in late modernity. Using social survey data from England, this proposition was put to an empirical test for three types of risks: income loss, accident or illness, and poor customer service or advice. Regression analyses revealed that class position only affected perceptions of the risk of i…
All roads leading to Rome? The medium term outcomes of Australian youth’s transition pathways from education
Young people’s transition from education into the labour market are diverse: sometimes direct from school to work or inactivity, sometimes characterised by stop-starts and combinations of different activities. This paper explores the association between transition pathways of Australian youth and their outcomes, in terms of earnings, perceptions of employment opportunities and debt. It builds on analysis by Fry and Boulton [2013. Prevalence of Tr…
Perceptions of labour market risks: Shifts and continuities across generations
In the risk society thesis, most notably forwarded by Ulrich Beck and Anthony Giddens, the labour market plays a key role in individualization processes. While for previous generations, family and personal networks, and also government institutions, were important in providing access to and mobility within the labour market, cohorts entering the labour market since the 1970s and onwards are perceived to be living in a modern 'risk regime', requir…
Jumping off the track: Comparing the experiences of first jobs of young people living in disadvantaged and non-disadvantaged neighbourhoods in Britain
This paper draws on an analysis of one of the UK's most prominent longitudinal datasets, the British Household Panel Survey. The panel was used to study and track the realisation of job aspirations of young people born in the early 1980s and entering the workforce in the 2000s. The study compared the aspirations of those growing up in socio-economically disadvantaged areas with those growing up in non-disadvantaged areas. The analysis confirmed s…
The risk society hypotheses: An empirical test using longitudinal survey data
This paper seeks to test the influential ‘risk society’ thesis using quantitative data from the major UK longitudinal surveys. Two hypotheses are derived from the thesis: distanciation (the claim that more recent generations understand and manage their social lives in relation to risk and uncertainty in substantially different ways from those of their parents’ generation) and reflexivity (the view that individuals are increasingly aware of their …
Risk through the years – a statistical portrait of young people's risk perceptions and experiences relative to those of older generations
Youth and adolescence are associated with significant changes in a person's life. According to risk theory, the changes experienced by young people today are fundamentally different from those experienced by previous generations and entail a greater degree of uncertainty. In this paper, survey and interview data are used to describe how contemporary risk experiences of young people in Britain differ from those of older generations, highlighting, …
Working beyond the state pension age in the United Kingdom: The role of working time flexibility and the effects on the home
The present and future security of employee-pension funding remains at the forefront of public debate across Europe and beyond. In the United Kingdom, to finance future pension entitlements it has been suggested that the state pension age be increased. This paper presents the results of analyses of four major national social surveys that have explored the working and living conditions of workers in paid employment after the state pension age. Com…
When Welfare-to-Work Programs Seem to Work Well: Explaining Why Riverside and Portland Shine So Brightly
Of welfare-to-work programs evaluated by random assignment, two stand out as having exceptionally large estimated effects: one in Riverside, California, and the other in Portland, Oregon. The authors use data from 24 evaluations and the tools of meta-analysis to examine why. The findings indicate that the apparently superior performance of these two programs in increasing the earnings of participants is only partly attributable to program design …
Returning to Normality: Substance Users' Work Histories and Perceptions of Work During and After Recovery
Journal Article Returning to Normality: Substance Users’ Work Histories and Perceptions of Work During and After Recovery Get access Andreas Cebulla, Andreas Cebulla Correspondence to Andreas Cebulla, National Centre for Social Research, 35 Northampton Square, London EC1V 0AX, UK. E-mail: [email protected] Search for other works by this author on: Oxford Academic Google Scholar Noel Smith, Noel Smith Search for other works by this author on:…
Urban Policy and Local Economic Interests in Northern Ireland: A City Comparison
Urban Policy and Local Economic Interests in Northern Ireland: A City Comparison
Disadvantage and New Prosperity in Restructured Belfast
Structural changes in the global economy have had far reaching effects on the class structure and spatial configuration of cities. Although most cities have been effected in a broadly similar fashion, each specific city displays distinctive local characteristics. Differing modalities of state policy interact with global processes and local realities. This article looks at the effects of these processes on Belfast and argues that the traditional c…
A geography of insurance exclusion: Perceptions of unemployment risk and actuarial risk assessment
Proposed welfare reform in Great Britain advocates joint public and private provision of insurance. Using omnibus survey data, this paper projects the availability and geographical coverage of private unemployment insurance in Britain among currently employed persons, on the basis of actuarial risk assessment criteria. It compares actuarial risk assessments with the respondents' subjective job risk assessments and their declared intention to take…
The Final Instance - Unemployment Insurance Going Private? A Study of a Future Social Security Scenario in the UK and Germany
This paper explores the scope for privatizing unemployment insurance in Britain and Germany. The research builds on two consecutive projects, undertaken in the two countries between 1996 and 2000. The studies investigated people's attitudes towards the welfare state and private insurance, and families' strategies to manage the financial risk of unemployment. About 6% of the working population of both Britain and Germany claimed to possess private…
Funding Supported Accommodation: Financial and Administrative Implications of Reforming Housing Benefit
Government proposals to reform the funding of support services in Britain require local authorities to take stock of support schemes in their areas before a new single support budget will replace existing arrangements in April 2003. In the course of the transition, local authorities will also need to scrutinize supported accommodation charges in order to remove charges for services that are unlawfully paid for by Housing Benefit. This paper highl…
Meta-Evaluation: Discovering What Works Best in Welfare Provision
Numerous programmes designed to encourage welfare recipients to move into work and off benefit have been evaluated in the United States. Many have randomly assigned potential participants into ‘experimental’ and ‘control’ groups to generate unbiased estimates of the effectiveness of the programmes. The results of the evaluations have been selectively influential in shaping policy developments on both sides of the Atlantic, but a thorough understa…
Returning to Normality: Substance Users' Work Histories and Perceptions of Work During and After Recovery
Journal Article Returning to Normality: Substance Users’ Work Histories and Perceptions of Work During and After Recovery Get access Andreas Cebulla, Andreas Cebulla Correspondence to Andreas Cebulla, National Centre for Social Research, 35 Northampton Square, London EC1V 0AX, UK. E-mail: [email protected] Search for other works by this author on: Oxford Academic Google Scholar Noel Smith, Noel Smith Search for other works by this author on:…
When Welfare-to-Work Programs Seem to Work Well: Explaining Why Riverside and Portland Shine So Brightly
Of welfare-to-work programs evaluated by random assignment, two stand out as having exceptionally large estimated effects: one in Riverside, California, and the other in Portland, Oregon. The authors use data from 24 evaluations and the tools of meta-analysis to examine why. The findings indicate that the apparently superior performance of these two programs in increasing the earnings of participants is only partly attributable to program design …
Class or Individual? A Test of the Nature of Risk Perceptions and the Individualisation Thesis of Risk Society Theory
The theory of risk society claims that 'individualisation' has led social class positions to loose their significance in explaining risk and risk perceptions in late modernity. Using social survey data from England, this proposition was put to an empirical test for three types of risks: income loss, accident or illness, and poor customer service or advice. Regression analyses revealed that class position only affected perceptions of the risk of i…
Working beyond the state pension age in the United Kingdom: The role of working time flexibility and the effects on the home
The present and future security of employee-pension funding remains at the forefront of public debate across Europe and beyond. In the United Kingdom, to finance future pension entitlements it has been suggested that the state pension age be increased. This paper presents the results of analyses of four major national social surveys that have explored the working and living conditions of workers in paid employment after the state pension age. Com…
Meta-Analyse – Eine Einleitung
Risk through the years – a statistical portrait of young people's risk perceptions and experiences relative to those of older generations
Youth and adolescence are associated with significant changes in a person's life. According to risk theory, the changes experienced by young people today are fundamentally different from those experienced by previous generations and entail a greater degree of uncertainty. In this paper, survey and interview data are used to describe how contemporary risk experiences of young people in Britain differ from those of older generations, highlighting, …
The risk society hypotheses: An empirical test using longitudinal survey data
This paper seeks to test the influential ‘risk society’ thesis using quantitative data from the major UK longitudinal surveys. Two hypotheses are derived from the thesis: distanciation (the claim that more recent generations understand and manage their social lives in relation to risk and uncertainty in substantially different ways from those of their parents’ generation) and reflexivity (the view that individuals are increasingly aware of their …
A Convergence of Attitudes? Perceptions of Social Inequality and Work in Post-communist and ‘Traditional’ European Market Economies
Economic and governmental reforms change public opinion and behaviour. Using the International Social Survey, this paper analyses attitudes to social inequality and work orientations in three European post-communist countries reported immediately after the introduction of market economies (in and around 1990) and in more recent years (up to 2005). The emerging patterns are compared with those reported in Western European market economies. The res…
Perceptions of labour market risks: Shifts and continuities across generations
In the risk society thesis, most notably forwarded by Ulrich Beck and Anthony Giddens, the labour market plays a key role in individualization processes. While for previous generations, family and personal networks, and also government institutions, were important in providing access to and mobility within the labour market, cohorts entering the labour market since the 1970s and onwards are perceived to be living in a modern 'risk regime', requir…
The demise of certainty: Shifts in aspirations and achievement at the turn of the century
The analysis of two British cohort studies (of people born in 1958 or 1970) and one British panel study (of people born in the early 1980s) tracked the educational, employment and marital preferences of three generations of young people between ages 16 and 23/26. It found a steady decline in young people achieving their ambitions. Supporting evidence from in-depth interviews with parents and their children suggested that the perceived need, abili…
The mutual constitution of risk and inequalities: Intersectional risk theory
In this article, we examine the conceptual importance of integrating risk and intersectionality theory for the study of how risk and various forms of inequality intersect and are mutually constitutive. We argue that an intersectional perspective can advance risk research by incorporating more effectively the role of such social categories as gender and race into the analysis of ‘risk’ as an empirical phenomenon. In doing so, the intersectional pe…
Jumping off the track: Comparing the experiences of first jobs of young people living in disadvantaged and non-disadvantaged neighbourhoods in Britain
This paper draws on an analysis of one of the UK's most prominent longitudinal datasets, the British Household Panel Survey. The panel was used to study and track the realisation of job aspirations of young people born in the early 1980s and entering the workforce in the 2000s. The study compared the aspirations of those growing up in socio-economically disadvantaged areas with those growing up in non-disadvantaged areas. The analysis confirmed s…
Disability, and social and economic inclusion: Who is in and out of the Australian National Disability Insurance Scheme
A new National Disability Insurance Scheme is being trialled in Australia, following criticism of the fragmented and inequitable nature of existing disability supports (e.g. in the 2009 ‘Shut Out’ report by the National People with Disabilities and Carer Council) and reform recommendations made by the Australian Government's Productivity Commission in 2011. The Insurance Scheme distinguishes between people living with disability who will be eligi…
Apprenticeships in homelessness: A quantitative study
Training and education are acknowledged routes into employment, but they also entail risks of contemporaneous financial loss, and economic and social insecurity. This paper explores the specific risk of homelessness among apprentices and trainees, drawing on a survey conducted in South Australia in 2013. Housing has been largely overlooked by studies of the wellbeing of apprentices and trainees, and by explorations of the drivers of attrition rat…
Learning in a rich country: The normalisation of homelessness among apprentices in Australia
This paper documents evidence of a ‘normalisation’ of the risk of homelessness experienced by apprentices and trainees in Australia. It draws on a bespoke survey of past and current learners in its Southern state, group and one-to-one interviews with apprentices and trainees, and a review of a government support programme, conducted in 2012 and 2013. The research produced evidence of apprentices and trainees experiencing homelessness in the cours…
All roads leading to Rome? The medium term outcomes of Australian youth’s transition pathways from education
Young people’s transition from education into the labour market are diverse: sometimes direct from school to work or inactivity, sometimes characterised by stop-starts and combinations of different activities. This paper explores the association between transition pathways of Australian youth and their outcomes, in terms of earnings, perceptions of employment opportunities and debt. It builds on analysis by Fry and Boulton [2013. Prevalence of Tr…
The social orientations and ideologies of UK finance employees at the onset of the Global Financial Crisis
Debates about the Global Financial Crisis of 2007 have pointed at institutional and individual-behavioural factors as its causes. Using the British Household Panel Survey, this article highlights marked differences in perceptions of societal and economic fairness among financial services employees in investment or management positions in the United Kingdom and the general working population at the brink of the Global Financial Crisis. Panel data …
Work-Life Imbalance in Extended Working Lives: Domestic Divisions of Labour and Partners’ Perceptions of Job Pressures of Non-Retiring Older Workers
Extending working lives prolongs existing patterns of time spent in work or with family into later life. Analysis of European Social Survey data shows a widening in inequitable domestic divisions of labour in households with post-retirement age workers. We explore partners’ perceptions of older workers’ job pressures when close to or beyond retirement age. Partners’ concerns about job pressures are found not to be immediately associated with ineq…
The Participation of Senior Citizens in Policy-Making: Patterning Initiatives in Europe
Worldwide, active aging policy calls for greater participation of senior citizens in the social, economic, and political realms. Despite emerging evidence of initiatives engaging senior citizens in social activities, little is known about the use of participatory approaches in the design and/or implementation of policies that matter to older citizens. This article identifies initiatives facilitating the civic participation of older people in poli…
Political science (21 works) · Economics (19 works) · Sociology (17 works) · Business (13 works) · Psychology (12 works) · Demographic economics (11 works) · Economic growth (11 works) · Employment and Welfare Studies (11 works) · Social Policy and Reform Studies (9 works) · Housing, Finance, and Neoliberalism (8 works)