A Conversation with Kevin Young

A Conversation with Kevin Young Tiffany E. Barber (bio) JAY-Z is one of the most influential rap artists of all time, and his impact on hip-hop, entrepreneurship, and philanthropy has only grown since his relationship with Beyoncé went public. In this interview, Tiffany E. Barber and Kevin young discuss JAY-Z's rise to stardom, his performances of black masculinity and vulnerability, and the current state of hip-hop and poetic writing alongside young's own development as a writer and critic. young is the Director of the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture and Poetry Editor for The New Yorker. He is the author of thirteen books of poetry and prose, most recently Brown (Knopf, 2018), a New York Times Notable Book. young's Bunk: The Rise of Hoaxes, Humbug, Plagiarists, Phonies, Post-Facts, and Fake News (Graywolf Press, 2017) won the Anisfield-Wolf Book Award in Nonfiction, among other accolades. young's previous nonfiction book, The Grey Album: On the Blackness of Blackness (Graywolf Press, 2012), won the Graywolf Press Nonfiction Prize and the PEN Open Book award. young was inducted into the American academy of arts and Sciences in 2016, just months before JAY-Z became the first rapper to be inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2017. Below is an edited transcript of Young's thoughts on JAY-Z and black cultural production more broadly. Tiffany E. Barber: This interview seems particularly prescient in light of Everything Is Love (2018), the Carters' most recent surprise album drop. Beyoncé and JAY-Z have successfully broken the Internet yet again. What makes these two so fascinating for consumers? Kevin young: I didn't listen to JAY-Z's mixtapes. For me, he transcended and became the rap icon he is today when he sampled "[It's the] Hard Knock Life." It was so crazy good and so unlikely, and I think that practice also extends to Beyoncé, although her fan base and approach are different. But JAY-Z's ability to take culture from anywhere exemplifies the origins of hip-hop. With that track, he transforms something that is quintessentially white—little orphan [End Page 399] Annie. He also parrots Daddy Warbucks—a symbol of financial excess. These early moments were really crucial in establishing Jay's "I can do anything" attitude. His calling card was "the greatest rapper alive," which is part of Biggie's legacy and Jay's relationship to Biggie, who was [actually] the best rapper of all time [laughter]. TEB: Regarding Jay entering a new level of celebrity and craftsmanship, can you talk about the arc of your interest in him coincident with your own development, from The Blueprint (2001) to The Grey Album (2004; 2012) to now? KY: The Blueprint outlines the rap game and Jay's role in it. He essentially reveals his blueprint for success and describes its workings, its aims. This schema develops across his records when he's becoming Hova and other personas he plays with inside of his larger identity. For instance, the declaration—"I am a business, man"—is really important. This goes back to soul music, the idea of not simply making records but creating a brand, a label, a home. Part of that is entrepreneurship, which is both represented by the street and by rap music itself. In a narrow sense for Jay's success, those things are related—financially and culturally. Remember when he retired? He wasn't going to rap anymore. That's a classic soul move. Like, "I'm not going to make any more records. I'm giving my life to the Lord, or I'm giving my life to this other thing." That's a kind of silence, and in The Grey Album, I talk about how silence and hip-hop are interrelated. Silence takes the form of death, like in the case of Biggie or different kinds of hip-hop. Then there's the silence that comes from repudiating one's old name or becoming a new being. I think for Jay there's also a tension between silence and publicity that's domestic. There was a time when people thought Jay and Bey

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